Warning: Comic contains mature content.
Edit: So Picasa (Blogger's image hosting site) automatically resizes large pictures to 1600 pixels tall. Photobucket's even worse. Rather than pay a site to get the "pro" account for a few extra pixels, I resized the comic image and redid the text/word bubbles so that they're readable. Sorry 'bout all that =/
Though tiny, I could read it, and it's funny as hell. I really dig your sense of humor!
ReplyDeleteApparently Blogger uses Picasa, which holds hard limits on the physical size of the image (storage size was ok) and hence shrunk it. I'll replace with the full sized version when I can get home.
ReplyDelete...and thanks! I'm glad you like it! :)
Anyone else having problems reading it, you can usually have your browser zoom in. It does nothing for the resolution, I know, but it's something to tide you over until tonight.
Love it bro. Hey I am finishing up my BA banner now and will be starting the DA one this week. Check out pics on my blog.
ReplyDeleteLooks beautiful! I'm super-excited to see the Dark Angels one! Holy crap, I'm nearly having an epileptic fit just thinking about it!
ReplyDeleteHey Darksol,
ReplyDeleteAnother great comic. I see you've gone for the tidy style of drawing this time round, and a good decision!
Why is it that whenever I see a chaplain in artwork, I always spend so long trying to work out what chapter he is with! Same with librarians. It's actually becoming and obsession lol. Bloody black armour...
I love Chaplains but the I could do without the cursing (It doesn't add anything to the comic for me) honestly, it kinda detracts a bit.
ReplyDeleteNice line work on this though, much cleaner than previous ones.
Normally I would shy away from the superfluous use of curse words, but here I felt that the moment called for it. He's a Space Marine Chaplain; their job revolves around spreading hatred and intolerance, and they're extremely violent to boot.
ReplyDeleteI don't feel that a single curse word is excessive, and I tried some substitutions first but they didn't convey the same emotion. It being the largest font doesn't help when the pic is so shrunken, though. It's the only clear word =/
As a rule of thumb, I generally attempt to refrain from using curse words unless I feel they're necessary.
Sadly, US English doesn't really make much use of "sod" or "bugger" - both of which (whilst a little rude to British sensibilities) might have worked a treat in lieu of the aforementioned expletive. Likewise with the even milder "bollocks to..."
ReplyDeleteI'm mostly with Ron here, though I can see why you felt it worked - it does! Just a shame... STILL, yet again, I love the strip - it's really keeping me amused, especially as tsoalr.com seems to have gone somewhat downhill of late. Keep up the great work, Darksol!
- Drax
I must admit that I didn't consider the British slang-words as substitutes. ...and the idea of "Bollocks!!" replacing the "F the Black Templars!!" does tickle...
ReplyDelete... but wouldn't it be just as bad?
Ok, I've gotten a few emails on the subject, and I think this is a good opportunity to talk about this...
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I'm not in the least bit angry about any of this. In fact, I'm very happy nothing's turned heated like they usually do on this kind of subject (especially on the internet). Secondly, I am always open to suggestion on making the comic (or even the normal articles) better.
So, here's some questions for you guys:
Did the usage of the curse word bother you?
Do you have a suggested alternative phrase he could use? (I'd preferably like to keep the angry and immediately dismissive tone, though...)
Would it matter what word was used? (i.e. perhaps the tone itself is what's offensive...)
For those of you across the pond: How severe is the usage of the word "Bollocks!!" if it replaced that entire bubble ("F Black Templars!")?
I haven't had the pleasure of spending any time in any part of Europe just yet, but I was under the impression that it is almost as bad...
I commend you on your willingness to take the feedback on this and work it out.
ReplyDeleteI think even a string of @#!?% might work.
Curse words carry so much baggage that unless it fits exaclty what you are trying to say, you may be better off leaving the reader to fill in the most appropriate one for themselves.
What a Chaplain says in my mind is not the same as everyone else. As an artist, I know it can be hard to get that one point across.
Sometime it can be a single word that makes or breaks a comic.
That and I have a ton of younger readers and you're a link on my site. And while I can't and WOULD NOT even try to censor anything creative from someone else, I do have to choose what I link to as I want to make my site readable by the largest audience.
Thanks for listening.
For my money, 'bollocks' is a pretty low order taboo word. You might equate it with 'crap', but it has a comical ring to it. Although UK TV censorship is WAY less severe than US, 'bollocks' is fine for pre-watershed stuff, and I've even heard it in kids' programmes. Still - it's got a great ring to it!
ReplyDelete- Drax.
Love the comic... I would have skipped the F-bomb. It's not like I don't hear it everyday at work, and I certainly understand the emphasis, but I'm just a little more sensitive to it as a dad with kids just starting to get into the hobby. I want to share things with them, but I not ready to share r-rated language with them, even if it's really funny.
ReplyDelete@Mike/anyone:
ReplyDeletewould "@#!?%" work for you?
Would that be a thing you were more comfortable with?
Also, would the emphasis still be there for you? i.e. Would it diminish the effect?
How about replacing the word with "Bollocks." Does a vulgarity from overseas make it better, or is it preferred to stick with a string of characters?
My goal here in these comics is to make a humorous and quirky view into the universe of 40k. Until I received a few emails, I had forgotten that I share this hobby with some kids out there (they're not all late 20s-30s like me). It's easy to forget sometimes when my main gaming group are all similarly aged.
While I would normally not bat an eye at a cuss-word or two between adults, it does bother me to think of that same dialogue between me and someone's kid.
At this point I think I'd like to find an acceptable alternative that doesn't remove too much of the edge of the moment. (i.e. it is intended to be a cutting and immediately dismissive comment aimed at the Black Templar)
There's no real substitute for that staccato harshness of a well placed f-bomb, but the string of character gets the point across.
ReplyDelete"He's really mad and saying something very inappropriate." ;-)
Personally I thought the use of the F word really boosted how angry he was. I see !@# as not somethnig very pointient, and, really, shying away from the subject matter. 40k is not a 'childrens' game, and swearing can bolster the harsh reality of the game as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI don't see any difference in this humor to that of an Eldar 'I'd hit that!' both are mature subjects, and it's not as if you suddenly went from childrens clown to Jim Davidson.
Perfectly appropriate.
Endangered Human has a good point. Some of the material in your comics is adult in nature. This is not bad, just geared towards a certain audience.
ReplyDeleteThis game is what you make it, sure there are younger kids and then there are older kids as well that participate in the hobby.
I would think if you can still get your point across effectively AND appeal to the widest audience as possible, you're more likely to get the best response.
Swearing... ok you pick up a book, it doesn't have a 'bad content' warning like a CD, but... I think the internet's got enough swearing in it. My personal favourite is to create mildly amusing swearing combinations in my stories - such as:
ReplyDelete"golden thronestools" - not particularly popular person...
Suneokun: I had just read that story a little bit ago and thought the same thing when I reached the "golden thronestools" part. Haha.
ReplyDeleteThe sexual innuendos of previous comics involving a pair of unscrupulous Eldar is a whole other issue, though there are some interesting parallels.
Would placing a label before such a comic warning of either Mature content, or Vulgarity help? With the thumbnail being so small, you'd see the warning before clicking the comic...
Perhaps a disclaimer at the top of the site to warn your readers of the sometimes mature content...
ReplyDeletethen you start to "limit" you readership to some degree.
Seems like a double edged sword sometimes... limit yourself for a wider audience or limit your audience for your wider self.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCaution: This is a hobby horse of mine, and I do tend to ramble!
ReplyDeleteWell, this is quite an interesting kettle of fish isn't it! First off, as one from 'across the pond', bollocks is a fairly unremarkable word these days, and does indeed appear before the watershed on our T.V. It also can't be beaten when said with the proper British accent!
As far as the comic goes, I read it the first time and thought nothing of it to be honest - I imagine if I'd been asked, I would not have recalled that there even was a swear word. But that might just be the way I am. I do strongly believe though that words are just words and that it’s largely the context that matters. If somebody had used the F-word to insult or deliberately offend then that is an entirely different situation than the one found here. The author clearly thought that this word struck the tone they wanted to convey and as visitors to their blog we are given the choice to either take it or leave it.
I also agree that 40K in itself contains a lot of adult material and that neither GW nor anybody else should be ashamed of it (I was very unimpressed at the new demonette models for that very reason, but that’s a different discussion!). I myself picked up the hobby at the tender age of 10 and none of the imagery or background, which was far more blunt back then, has left me scarred or otherwise. So, coming to the point of a potential young audience, I think any younger reader who has A. Got into 40K and B. Has access to the internet, will probably have come across a lot worse than this in their time. If you’ll allow me to get a little psychological here, I do think that children who are able to come across risky and contentious issues, and are able to draw their own conclusions, usually turn out to be more well rounded individuals.
So, in my opinion the word is fine, if its what darksol wanted to use. I also want to add that I really respect anybody who takes the time to mention something that bothers them (even if I don’t agree) and I’m really impressed at the way this discussion has been encouraged and conducted. My views are just that; my views, and it’s always refreshing to find a sensible discussion on the internet!
I really really love this comic. I laughed so hard over "emperor's nut". oh man.
ReplyDeleteAs for the cursing debate, it's your comic and the tone is up to you. This isn't a game for munchkins, and by the time you're a teenager, curse words are common place. In my opinion, censorship is more harmful.
If the story supports the use of a curse word, then go for it!
ReplyDeleteThose stupid "%@£$!" things, when in teenage/adult oriented comics, have always made me roll my eyes...
Just like I find the "bipping" of bad language, or the blurring of "naughty bits" in video-clips when they're aired between 11pm and 5pm completely ridiculous.
Wow, this really went somewhere while I wasn't looking! I'll drop my two *@#$ing cents in too.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, there is tact. Don't think that what I'm about to say means that I believe you should drop f-bombs at your grandmother funeral while reading the eulogy.
Words are really just words. I read this comic and the 'f' word really didn't even make me think twice. Some might read it and be fixated on its use, the word has an affect on them. I believe that words have the power we give them. The best example I can give is the two extremes of my mother and I.
We are watching a movie, someone get's their arm chopped off and they drop the 'f bomb'. I think to myself, wow that must have hurt, I'd have probably said the same thing. My mother makes a scene and huffs and grunts and rolls her eyes in a show stealing performance to show how much she finds the word distasteful. I can tell you, I've seen the woman drop a can of vegetables on her foot and say much worse, so the realism the word adds should not be lost on her.
But, my point is, the word is important because she makes it important. We all do this with words to some degree and we learn to at a young age. Another example. Take your child that is just learning to talk. In a monotone voice say, "I have seen a funny monkeyface". This will probably get no reaction at all. Then say, "I've seen a funny, MONKEYFACE!"... you'll have a little person running around chanting monkeyface. This is also why small children pick up on curse words so well, we generally say them with emphasis or importance.
Anyway, I've rambled enough. The fact remains that while I'm totally unaffected by curse words, some people will be... and there's nothing wrong with that. I think to be fair maybe some comics should come with a disclaimer or 'rating', maybe even in the title.
So what are your thoughts now Master Darksol?
ReplyDeleteAny plans for future comics?
Awesome comic ^_^.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great blog, and the comics are your creative brainchild. It's ridiculous to have to cater to someone else's sensibilities when you design or write your own stuff. If they like it, great! If they don't, then I suggest they go elsewhere online to find their source of amusement. We are all grown ups, and swearing and sexual innuendo is all part of the world we live in, deal with it! It's not a children's game anyway and I am guessing that most of your readers are old and mature enough to have heard much worse. Censorship is a destructive pile of nonsense. It kills creativity and is pretentious and hypocritical in the worst way possible. There, I've said it. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry I haven't chimed in the last few days guys. A lot of very personal family news (the BAD kind) hit us over this weekend. I've had a lot of very unpleasant things on my mind recently.
ReplyDeleteA few things to throw out there so you all know kinda what's going on in MasterDarksol world...
I'm teetering on this issue between substituting the word and just putting in place a maturity warning on appropriate comic posts. Given the poll, it doesn't look like the vulgarity is turning anyone away, though something needs to change, even if that change is just a warning label.
I'm struggling getting through painting a unit of Guardians to completion. Bad news in the family doesn't mix well with steady hands and a desire to paint. =/
After the Guardians, I'm hijacking the poll, and doing an Eldar Autarch for Fritz's competition. He crazy!
Sorry to hear that, Mate,
ReplyDeleteHope you can ride stuff out okay. Take care,
- Drax
Sounds good, I'm sure you'll have an appropriate soultion.
ReplyDeleteNow get to work on your Eldar HQ, I've already started on mine.
Sounds good, I'm sure you'll have an appropriate solution.
ReplyDeleteNow get to work on your Eldar HQ, I've already started on mine.
Great job man. Love your drawing style, specially the way you give the chaplain's face that expressivity (eyebrows moving and stuff). And about the language you used, well, where I live those swearwords are not considered THAT offensive, so it's ok for me.
ReplyDeleteHope you're ok too, best wishes.
Wow, I love the comics! The use of swearing hardly seems excessive when compared to any other funny webcomic today. I guess you could have used another non curse word, but I don't think it would have been the same. Somehow "Stuff the black templars!" doesn't have the same ring ...
ReplyDeleteRegardless, I look forward to the next comic!
yeah its really good sense of humour
ReplyDeleteSaikowski... *sigh* :P
ReplyDeleteThe vulgarity doesn't detract from anything. I think it was used tastefully and int the correct context.
So NAH!
Great strip.
-Reece
That was awesome. Keep it up.
ReplyDeleteu can click on it and its larger
ReplyDeletehey i love your vids on youtube and i like the baal predator you did it looks really cool =)
ReplyDelete